Dave Guard's Banjo Teacher?

With the following post to the Kingston Crossroads board, fan Dave Beck kicked off a discussion that elicited some rather informative responses on the subject of Monaural and Stereo vs Duophonic recordings. Todd Everett is a freelance writer and producer of the "The Best of the Decca Years" CD, Ken Bradshaw has contributed articles on Dave Guard's career in Australia, and the enigmatic 'Mr. Roadie' is a frequent poster with extensive behind the scenes experience in the music business.

Posted by David Beck on 2/19/2002, 1:41 pm

While at my friendly neighborhood used record store on Sunday, I picked up a copy of "The Kingston Trio". It's the first time I've actually heard the album as originally released, believe it or not. Part of my brother's collection (the hand-me-downs I got) included a "Duophonic - For Stereo Phonographs Only" release of selected cuts from the first two albums. Never played it, cuz, as a kid, I only had a mono record player, and I thought that by playing a Duophonic album with a mono needle would damage either the needle or the record. When I finally got a stereo player later in the 60's, I had played the album, but it sounded terrible. Hollow echo. Sounded like the same thing RCA used to do with early Elvis stuff recorded only in mono to make it "stereo-buyer-worthy". Anyway, while at the store on Sunday, I found two different pressings of "The Kingston Trio". One in true mono, and another in "Duophonic". I chose the true mono cuz of my memories of the afore-mentioned. I trust I made the right purchase.

Is that all there was to this "Duophonic" stuff? Capitol's way of turning a quick buck by "reprocessing" mono to get in on the stereo fad? Doesn't make sense. Why continue to release both stereo AND mono copies ... a trend that continued with all record companies well into the late 60's.

Also, there's something out there called "Stereo Concert", with the picture from the first album on the cover. I take it that's the Hungry I thing in "Duophonic"?

Posted by Todd Everett on 2/19/2002, 7:07 pm , in reply to "Re: The Kingston Trio (the LP)"

Fake stereo -- there were several process, all involving added echo -- were (surprise!) a result of the recording industry's greed. Or, as they'd put it, responding to public demand.

You be the judge.

When stereo came along, it came pretty quickly -- kind of like when CDs first hit the market. Labels began recording in stereo immediately (Atlantic, in fact, had been using 8-track for some time, hence their snappier mixes on records that were released in mono), but wanted to get as much back-catalogue out there as possible. The only problem was, the back catalogue hadn't been recorded in stereo.

With the record industry always interested in recycling (if only because it costs less to re-release something than to sign new acts and record new music), somebody came up with the idea of fake stereo.

Processes involved placing sonic filters over the left and right channels, so each would sound slightly different; adding echo; doubling the signal very slightly out of phase; etc. None of the processes were real stereo. But this way, they could print "stereo" on the jacket.

Sales people were telling the labels that customers wouldn't buy anything that didn't say "stereo" on it, and stereo (or fake stereo) albums cost a dollar more.

Capitol, probably to save money, got caught with their pants down on The Trio., Both the first album and "hungry i" could have been recorded in stereo -- the label had the equipment -- but, probably to save money on an unproven act, the albums were recorded only in mono. "Stereo Concert" was an amateur recording that Capitol picked up to have something from the first two albums on the market in real stereo (though several true stereo Trio albums had been released by the time it came out); the album you're talking about had all of the songs from the first and second albums that weren't on the "Stereo Concert" album, issued in fake stereo for those gullible enough to buy it.

Stereo Concert, issued after (the true stereo) String Along, hit No. 15 in Billboard, for what that's worth. And, it was a pretty good album.

In the meantime, the mono albums were pretty much taken off the market, so retailers wouldn't have to deal with "double inventory," and -- more important -- so buyers weren't given the option of buying the same music for a dollar less.

Just keep in mind: anything that the record industry does as a whole, is done with the primary goal of getting more money from the public. Fair enough; that's called free enterprise. Ethics are not, sadly, an overriding concern in most instances.

Remember that they next time you're asked to buy all your old albums in the newest process.

Posted by Ken Bradshaw on 2/20/2002, 7:09 am , in reply to "Re: KT LP Release Dates and Stereo"

This may not be a direct Kingston Trio-related issue, but it still fascinates me.

On the subject of "fake stereo", and Duophonic in particular, Roadie is talking about records which can be played safely on stereo and mono equipment, and not records that have been "electronically re-channelling for stereo effect". Duophonic was without question an example of the latter.

I was just looking at my original pressing of "Signals Through the Glass", which says something like "stereo, playable on stereo & mono phonographs" on the front. This was not an advisable practice until the late sixties, when mono cartridges were safe, light and flexible enough not to damage stereo records, and had been wired-up appropriately to pick up both stereo tracks.

I had the impression that some of the very early mono compatible stereo records lacked left-right separation to a degree - the sound was more centred.

"Duophonic" was rather like the process that Mark described above, and I still have Duophonic-processed songs recently re-released on CD. "The Kingston Trio 20 Golden Greats" is an Oz album which has all the original mono songs like "Tom Dooley" and "Scotch and Soda" re-channelling for stereo. Another example is the Seekers' "A World of Our Own" LP, which was released in mono only in England and in mono and Duophonic versions in the US. I have "The Complete Seekers" 5 CD box set and the tracks from that earlier album are all in Duophonic "stereo".

Some other re-channelling processes seemed to turn the bass up on one side, the treble up on the other, and not much more. In recent times, Capitol and some others have been using a spatial expansion system which gives some enhancement to the sound, but not always. Listen to "Blue Tattoo" on "Rediscover the Kingston Trio", where it is obvious, then listen to Folk Era's "An Evening With the Kingston Trio" that says it uses "digital stereo reverberation to create a simulated stereo image". I can't hear it at all on the latter CD.

One more interesting point on this already-long post. There was another kind of "fake stereo" which no one ever mentioned. One of the best examples was some of the early stereo LPs by The Beatles. The Beatles' first four LPs in England were released only in mono, as are the curently-available CD versions of these albums.

All of a sudden, there were stereo LP versions of "Please Please Me", "With the Beatles", "Beatles for Sale" and "A Hard Day's Night". The vocals came out of one speaker and the instruments out of the other. I can not remember if there was anything in the centre. Obviously, EMI had re-mixed separate vocal and instrumental tracks to create a spatial illusion, which really wasn't. A better example of the same thing was Donovan's "Sunshine Superman" LP, which was originally released in electronically re-channelled form, but now I have a stereo CD version of the very same record which sounds almost like real stereo.

A final point? Did the early Trio mono recordings utilize separate tracks before the final mix was done? Probably not but, if so, these were likely later wiped or destroyed. Imagine the possibilities if they were not. Some might get a buzz out of a 'refreshed' sound, although most will prefer history to stay the way they remember it.

Thanks for your patience in reading this far.

Posted by Mr. Roadie on 2/20/2002, 12:47 am , in reply to "The Kingston Trio (the LP)"

Please note, "Duophonic" is not a process!
It simply means, the record can be played on a mono
machine as well as Stereo without damaging the vinyl.
On many of the Vinyl albums you should note on the bottom of the
back, a strip which notates whether you can play this album on mono or stereo.
Kingston Trio Stereo Concert suggests you play the album only with a stereo cartridge, so does "At Large", "Last Month of the Year", "Here We Go Again", etc.
The most durable of them all was the recordings labeled, "Monophonic
Microgroove" These are true recordings of the Trio. No phase, no placement on stage, note, "Goin' Places," "up Close", etc.
We should not forget, Stereo is a man-made process to create a binaural effect.
We do not hear in Stereo!
Sooooooooooooo, look at the back of the Record. If it says Stereo, that's what it means.
A man made process to give staging to the performance.
You must realize it was marketing to sell stereo equipment.
The best recordings were, Monophonic Microgroove.
And That's the Trooooooooooooth.

more to come??

Posted by Mr. Roadie on 2/20/2002, 12:54 am , in reply to "Another mental lapse--meant "At Large"" not Make Way"

Read my earlier post re: Stereo/Mono.
After being sold the Stereo package, they realized, they
limited their market to just the mono, or just the stereo, sooooooo,
enter Albums like "Goin' Places", where you could buy the album and
not be scared to play it on your mono or stereo system.
And that's the Troooooooooooooth.

more to come??